Re: Which silo are we going to buy?

Scriptarius Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:46 pm

Daemonwelsh wrote:ANd hell yes. That titan is the one I want. How many people do we have confirmed to get on this project?

You do realize that if we stack enough experimental shit and energy tech into this the goverment / scientific community / eco companies / Greenpeace / etc. will drown us in funds.
Oh it will be glorious.

Daemonwelsh Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:47 pm

HarryDresden wrote:It seems most people are interested in the Titan, but think about it this way; It's near a major metropolitan area. Know what that means? More competition for resources, higher costs (Manpower, Energy Expedience, less farming land available, and a higher probability that we'll be attacked. The less energy you have to spend surviving is the more energy you could spend living).

My vote goes to the Nike facility for a few simple reasons, It's in a small town, with ample room to grow, it's in Kansas, an area populated with Salt Mines that can be converted into living areas if needed, and a valuable resource, the soil in Kansas is great for farming if needs be, and the land is flat, and easily defensible.

The Nike facility is made for a decent survival bunker that would serve as living quarters, but also, the workshop will be invaluable for future development.

The titan has a helluva lot of land that comes with it. What we have available to us if we go that route is the ability to work with other people, get investors easier, and a spot that people can access easier.

And right now I am going to check out land costs near the Nike facility.

Scriptarius Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:50 pm

The urban vicinity is one of the key reasons I prefer Titan - it's easier for the people who do not plan og living there forever to commute, and it'll be a lot easier to draw in outside guests for the club and events.

HarryDresden Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:51 pm

Daemonwelsh wrote:
HarryDresden wrote:It seems most people are interested in the Titan, but think about it this way; It's near a major metropolitan area. Know what that means? More competition for resources, higher costs (Manpower, Energy Expedience, less farming land available, and a higher probability that we'll be attacked. The less energy you have to spend surviving is the more energy you could spend living).

My vote goes to the Nike facility for a few simple reasons, It's in a small town, with ample room to grow, it's in Kansas, an area populated with Salt Mines that can be converted into living areas if needed, and a valuable resource, the soil in Kansas is great for farming if needs be, and the land is flat, and easily defensible.

The Nike facility is made for a decent survival bunker that would serve as living quarters, but also, the workshop will be invaluable for future development.

The titan has a helluva lot of land that comes with it. What we have available to us if we go that route is the ability to work with other people, get investors easier, and a spot that people can access easier.

And right now I am going to check out land costs near the Nike facility.

Most of the acreage is underground in the Titan, with little room for expansion. Also, it's hard enough raising $200,000, I'd hate to think of trying to raise Millions, and then raise more for repairs and expansions.

Also, you always have to take into account defense. Just because it may not be a Mad Max flick, doesn't mean it won't turn into something from Doomsday.

Mordegald Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:53 pm

HarryDresden wrote:It seems most people are interested in the Titan, but think about it this way; It's near a major metropolitan area. Know what that means? More competition for resources, higher costs (Manpower, Energy Expedience, less farming land available, and a higher probability that we'll be attacked. The less energy you have to spend surviving is the more energy you could spend living).

My vote goes to the Nike facility for a few simple reasons, It's in a small town, with ample room to grow, it's in Kansas, an area populated with Salt Mines that can be converted into living areas if needed, and a valuable resource, the soil in Kansas is great for farming if needs be, and the land is flat, and easily defensible.

The Nike facility is made for a decent survival bunker that would serve as living quarters, but also, the workshop will be invaluable for future development.

While I'm not entirely on board with the survival nut aspects of this post, it does raise several valid points. The land is better for our purposes, and I'm sure far cheaper to boot. The facility itself isn't huge, but neither is our investor base. If need be we can always expand, either above ground or under, and this facility lends itself very well to above-ground expansion, which is by far the easier. The small town aspect is also useful. We might very well get some kind of aid from the local government if we can convince them that we'll bring in revenue.

The problems, of course, are still there. Low underground floor space, pain in the ass location, and we're not likely to get much in the way of traffic except from people who already know it's there.

Daemonwelsh Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:55 pm

where do you see the underground portions?

Because acres to me says above ground area.

and as for the little traffik... thats what the internet, advertising, and setting up cons/larps does for us.

Scholarships, grants, loans, and whatnot are all what we are looking for.

Scriptarius Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:58 pm

Ok I know I'm really really going farfetched here but IF we could get a corporate sponsor or two dozen (I have some contacts but not enough) we MIGHT be able to turn this into a commercial enough production to actually afford the Titan.
Sure it might mean that every wall would look like a formula driver's ass with all the adverts, but hey, Titan would be worth it.

HarryDresden Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:58 pm

Well, I guess I am a bit of a Survival nut, but that's only out of a desire to be thrust into an apocalyptic situation. The main ideal though, is; If there are resources, there will be competition for said resources. Look at how many people have fought wars over a shiny metal. Now imagine all those people are starving, thirsty, and pissed off. Food will be the greatest commodity of a coming age.

As for this being a center of learning, gaming, and design, I'm totally down for that. In fact, I think that would be the best thing for an apocalyptic situation, a bastion of knowledge and learning, creating new ways to live and enjoy life.

**Pslotha** Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:00 pm

http://www.missilebases.com/valleyfallskansas

This one looks really nice!

Anon Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:01 pm

Scriptarius wrote:Ok I know I'm really really going farfetched here but IF we could get a corporate sponsor or two dozen (I have some contacts but not enough) we MIGHT be able to turn this into a commercial enough production to actually afford the Titan.
Sure it might mean that every wall would look like a formula driver's ass with all the adverts, but hey, Titan would be worth it.

This would be great. If we could get something like this, it would solve most of the money problems. What we need is to solidify the business plan, so we can show that it'll eventually return the investment. If it won't, then I don't think we can really count on sponsorship.

HarryDresden Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:04 pm

Anon wrote:
Scriptarius wrote:Ok I know I'm really really going farfetched here but IF we could get a corporate sponsor or two dozen (I have some contacts but not enough) we MIGHT be able to turn this into a commercial enough production to actually afford the Titan.
Sure it might mean that every wall would look like a formula driver's ass with all the adverts, but hey, Titan would be worth it.

This would be great. If we could get something like this, it would solve most of the money problems. What we need is to solidify the business plan, so we can show that it'll eventually return the investment. If it won't, then I don't think we can really count on sponsorship.

Two words good sir; Government Grants. They're easy to apply for, easy to earn, take about a 10 minute powerpoint on "How I'm going to secretly line your pockets if you approve this idea" and you don't have to pay them back.

Scriptarius Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:07 pm

HarryDresden wrote:
Anon wrote:
Scriptarius wrote:Ok I know I'm really really going farfetched here but IF we could get a corporate sponsor or two dozen (I have some contacts but not enough) we MIGHT be able to turn this into a commercial enough production to actually afford the Titan.
Sure it might mean that every wall would look like a formula driver's ass with all the adverts, but hey, Titan would be worth it.

This would be great. If we could get something like this, it would solve most of the money problems. What we need is to solidify the business plan, so we can show that it'll eventually return the investment. If it won't, then I don't think we can really count on sponsorship.

Two words good sir; Government Grants. They're easy to apply for, easy to earn, take about a 10 minute powerpoint on "How I'm going to secretly line your pockets if you approve this idea" and you don't have to pay them back.

I think this was the plan almost from the getgo - renewable energy everywhere, experimental underground food farms, experimental housing, etc etc etc.
Ask the government, state, greenpeace, Al Gore, etc for grants and donations.

HarryDresden Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:09 pm

Scriptarius wrote:
HarryDresden wrote:
Anon wrote:
Scriptarius wrote:Ok I know I'm really really going farfetched here but IF we could get a corporate sponsor or two dozen (I have some contacts but not enough) we MIGHT be able to turn this into a commercial enough production to actually afford the Titan.
Sure it might mean that every wall would look like a formula driver's ass with all the adverts, but hey, Titan would be worth it.

This would be great. If we could get something like this, it would solve most of the money problems. What we need is to solidify the business plan, so we can show that it'll eventually return the investment. If it won't, then I don't think we can really count on sponsorship.

Two words good sir; Government Grants. They're easy to apply for, easy to earn, take about a 10 minute powerpoint on "How I'm going to secretly line your pockets if you approve this idea" and you don't have to pay them back.

I think this was the plan almost from the getgo - renewable energy everywhere, experimental underground food farms, experimental housing, etc etc etc.
Ask the government, state, greenpeace, Al Gore, etc for grants and donations.

I guess I could really get a heads up on my 0 calorie pastries there... Patent pending. Why the fuck not anons? Let's do this. Bastion of knowledge and nerddom.

Scriptarius Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:19 pm

Does anyone here know anything about government grant policies?
I'd look into them myself but I'm not american to begin with so it's a bit pointless.

We should list off stuff we CAN get money for making. I'm pretty sure carbon neutral renewable energy gets you grants at least in some areas.

Anon Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:23 pm

Something else worth looking into is the condition the silo is in. Most of the internals are going to have to be ripped out and everything's going to have to be sandblasted out anyway, but it'll be much, much easier to renovate some of the internal structure is intact, and if the place isn't full of muddy water. There might be asbestos to dispose of too. I'm not sure how planning permission works in the USA, but I'd imagine that blueprints of what we intend to do will have to be submitted to someone and approved, so we might end up having to hire architects and/or engineers to do that.

Scriptarius Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:38 pm

Anon wrote:Something else worth looking into is the condition the silo is in. Most of the internals are going to have to be ripped out and everything's going to have to be sandblasted out anyway, but it'll be much, much easier to renovate some of the internal structure is intact, and if the place isn't full of muddy water. There might be asbestos to dispose of too. I'm not sure how planning permission works in the USA, but I'd imagine that blueprints of what we intend to do will have to be submitted to someone and approved, so we might end up having to hire architects and/or engineers to do that.

The flooding is what worries me the most. I've done asbestos removal and while it is annoying it is not exactly horrible. Or well, it wasn't in a thirst floor flat. Not sure about missile base asbestos.
I also know engineers who probably know architects and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Anon Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:41 pm

It's not so much the removal of the asbestos, it's paying someone to get rid of it as well. At least metal scrap can be sold.

Scriptarius Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:43 pm

Anon wrote:It's not so much the removal of the asbestos, it's paying someone to get rid of it as well. At least metal scrap can be sold.

Dump it at the bottom of the main silo and weld on a false bottom.
Not exactly legal or safe, but cheap.

Astra Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:59 pm

The more overland space we have, the better. It gives us more room to expand if we need it (above or below ground), and open air events can be held with little cost to us, like country music festivals, etc.

Having extra space in the bunker would be nice, but i see the extra space above ground as a spot ripe for opportunity to keep this project well funded & out of the targeting sights of the local/national government.

So my vote is for the one that has the best underground to surface space balance.

Scriptarius Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:10 pm

My top 3

#1: Titan
+45,000 sqft underground
+210 acres above ground
+already refurbished and cleaned out
+close to a city and an international airport
+floorplan available
-$2,800,000

#2: Nike
+$199,000
+15,000 sqft underground
+16,5 acres above ground
+waterline and well
+external buildings intact
-needs cleanup and refurbishing

#3: Atlas E (Valley Falls)
+$275,000
+15,000 sqft underground
+46 acres above ground
+1/2 mile driveway
+main structure in good condition
-(was) flooded
-needs new doors
-needs cleanup

If we can get corporate sponsors (constant cons and game tournaments, allow construction companies to test prototype ideas...), government grants (solar and wind power, carbon neutrality) and donations (greenpeace, Al Gore, etc) plus the project funders, we might be able to afford Titan. If we can, I see no reason not to. It is by far the best option.

**GrandHistorian** Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:16 pm

Titan is definitely the best option here...

But worst case scenario, I think Nike would be preferable, for the sole factor of maximum space. Fixing up things is not a problem at all, we already have a sizable group of people willing to do so. Not to mention that group has connections; work, friends, family etc.

HarryDresden Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:29 pm

Nike is also based near a small community. Farming is always big. I'm sure that we can expand in due time. Right now all it will take is 5 acres of land converted to wind, and 5 acres converted to solar to make us neutrally buoyant as far as energy uses go.

durandal Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:33 pm

I'll throw my vote behind Nike, for the same reasons Dresden mentioned. The external buildings add to the total amount of living/working space, the acreage is suitable for a small wind or solar farm, and the price is far more reasonable.

Scriptarius Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:36 pm

Gonna agree with Nike if we can't get enough grants/donations/sponsors to buy Titan. I still say we should try to see how much we can amass first before sealing the deal on Nike. At the end of the day $3,000,000 is not a big deal in the corporate world.

HarryDresden Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:36 pm

I'm thinking "Shoot for Titan, but if we land at Nike, we're still happy." or, perhaps we'll just wait for something else to come along.

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